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| Ultimatum X-Men Requiem | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 6 2009, 02:10 PM (970 Views) | |
| Ace | Aug 7 2009, 01:40 PM Post #11 |
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I find myself reinterpreting my own words just now. I still don't believe it's a snub, but rather a necessity. The Ultimate universe was a new line equivalent of DC crisis retcons, a reboot without damaging the original source material. It was designed to create a continuity without too many titles, too many needless characters, the baggage of back issues and mediocre storylines and to do all of this in a grounded realistic setting that could appeal to a new generation of fans. Somewhere along the line every one of those elements was lost. With that said and done, I believe I've become biased without realizing it. Until now, obviously. For that I apologize. Those flaws in the brand became very apparent to me at some point, and I began to pray that the line would be ended (save for Ultimate Spider-Man). I assumed the continuity would go the way of the MC2 line and be chopped down to just Spider-Girl (or in this case, USM). The bias I spoke of above, is that I've been trying to find a justification for what was done to the Ultimate X-Men brand during Ultimatum. The fact of the matter is, once upon a time I was an Ultimate X-Men fan. That, of course, changed. And now, to be both totally honest and blunt (after self-reflection): I don't care what has happened, or will happen to the Ultimate X-Men as long as the Ultimate brand continues forward. To put it simply, if killing off the X-Men is the answer to fixing the rest of the Ultimate universe (as it seems to be), then so be it. |
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| jrpbsp | Aug 7 2009, 02:11 PM Post #12 |
Undisputed Ruler of Comicdom
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See I'm coming at it from the exact opposite perspective. I was an Ultimate X-Men fan first and foremost even though yes it has lost it's way and was becoming bloated and over done I was still a fan of the characters having read them for 9 years each month. Even the DC reboots kept the characters around, they just changed them to fit the way they wanted the brand to go. Superman was still Superman just with a different back story and status quo. I was a fan of the Ultimates too but I have always been more of a X-Men then an Avenger fan so even though I did like the stories and characters they were never as real to me as the X-Men characters. I read most of the limiteds too though in general they were a waste of time. I did not, however, ever read either FF or Spidey. (Except for the few FF issues with Marvel Zombies once I started liking that brand). So they do not mean anything to me directly. Perhaps I would have been more jaded if they had been killed but the X-men lived. I don't honestly know. I do understand people love the characters and the series so I like to think I would feel bad for them. That being said, to also be blunt, after what they did to the X-Men I don't really care what happens to the Ultimate-verse. Nuke the whole thing and crucify the characters and it won't affect me. I'm not going to be reading it. They have, to me at least, told me that they don't care about the characters I like and by extension me as an Ultimate subscriber. I am completely aware I am in the minority on what I read and liked (more or less) in the Ultimate line but there are certainly enough X-Men subscribers you would have thought they would have given us some sort of peace offering. But nope even the Requiem issue (which for the other series gave hope or resurrections) actually made things worse. It was so blatant to me. But then maybe I am being too sensitive. Still its the end result that matters, basically every single character I really liked in the Ultimate-verse was killed. Even if it ends up with some really great Ultimate stories it would not matter. It will always be tainted on by the callous destruction of a title, characters and series that went a full 100 issues and then got burned at the stake. |
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| jrpbsp | Aug 7 2009, 02:48 PM Post #13 |
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Undisputed Ruler of Comicdom
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Since I missed the original response (I clicked the link and the new one was on another page so..just didn't see it) I wanted to add a little bit more about my perspective in general. I am a character person more then a plot person. Essentially I will give more leeway to a book with a bad story if it is about characters I love then I will give a story with great plot and truly horrible characters. Though I would argue that any truly great story will make you like and care for the characters on some level but I digress. When looking for a new comic I will give a series two issues, that's it. If I'm truly undecided I will go three but that rarely happens. I know within two if I am going to like the characters enough to continue. And once I subscribe to a series I am loyal to it. It takes a huge amount of bad stories to get me to cancel it. Or it takes killing off the characters I like. I will give a couple of examples. Walking Dead is a great series but Kirkman had been hinting that the character of Rick (my favorite) was not going to survive a recent story arc. If that had happened I was going to drop the title with no regrets. It just would not have been the same afterwards. Also, recently in an issue of Invincible Spoiler: click to toggle Now I was not planning to drop that comic per se, she was a beloved character but a supporting one. Still it made me think about it for a minute and I love that series. Spoiler: click to toggle Now what does that have to do with anything? Well I liked a lot of the Ultimate X-Men that were killed. In fact I probably liked most of them that were killed. Of those left? Iceman is meh, always played too young, Kitty is ok but same issue. Rogue never grew on me completely though she has been strong recently and Colossus is ok but he's recent developments have left me kind of cold. That basically leaves Jean and much as I like her not nearly enough to make up for the rest. And I know I am not alone. Every character is someone's favorite. Marvel knows this, they have said it a lot of times. To summarily execute not just a few characters but pretty much an entire team is saying, 'We know people love these characters but there aren't enough or we don't care enough to save them.' They are looking at the brand as whole yes. And in doing so they have decided what to sacrifice to help their brand get to where they want it. They are fine with infuriating 50,000 to get a 100,000 to read the title in other words if that pans out. Look at One More Day, they had a goal and did not care if they angered the long term fans to get it. So where am I going with this? Essentially they have spoken with their actions and said what is important. #1 Spider-Man. His title came through intact and is continuing. His fans are probably all happy (well unless he is really dead and we are getting Ultimate Ben Reilly but what are the odds?) #2 Ultimates - Biggest title but they wanted to make it relevant and clean out the bad characters so some mad fans. But most of them will probably stick with the new series #3 Fantastic Four - Sales weren't there but keeping all the characters around. Probably waiting for a letter campaign to restart it. Fans are probably lamenting the lack of title but wasn't too bad. . . #100 Ultimate X-Men - Title is gone, 75% of the team and supporting characters dead. Team is disbanded and globally hated. Headquarters is destroyed, few remaining probably already blown to the far winds. (Storm and Colossus didn't even show up for the funeral). Which one of these is not like the others? |
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| Ace | Aug 8 2009, 04:49 AM Post #14 |
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Samurai
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Changing tact a little bit here... http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=22449 http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090807-chicago09-marvel-ultimate.html So Millar is letting it all loose, what he has planned for Ultimate Comics: Avengers, and it's... jarring. I knew about some of that, and I thought it sounded pretty radical (in a bad way) at the time as well. So I'm conflicted, honestly. On the one hand, his ideas sound just awful. Essentially like "Lets just make kooky alternate versions of Iron Man, War Machine, Black Widow, Wasp, Thor and Hulk". I don't understand the purpose. And there's so much that has to be retconned and explained to achieve such a thing. On the other hand though, it's Millar. This is the man who made the Ultimate universe (alongside Bendis). Ultimate X-Men, Fantastic Four, and Ultimates? Him. And the preview pages (seen here) look and sound like the classic Millar Ultimate stuff I know and love. So I'm thinking this is just a matter of the concepts sounding terrible on paper, but working in reality. Hopefully. Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man looks incredible as always, though. Bendis has rarely faltered in regards to his Ultimate Spider-Man work. During the panel they mention a piece of preview art with Wolverine and a caption saying "I died... any questions?". Whether this means he'll be returning from the dead, or if the story is just about examining his death, I do not know. But if he does indeed return, this is directly contradictory to the final statement they make saying that dead is going to mean dead in regards to Ultimatum deaths. Honestly the whole thing feels like a copout. Yes, the characters are dead, but they're just creating a new Thor, Wasp, Black Widow, and so on. Why bother killing them off, only to create alternate copies? This is something I've mentioned before in regards to Thunderbird and Warpath. They kill off Thunderbird and then not long after they introduced a brother character who happens to look exactly the same, have the same personality and codename, and so on. It's the long lost duplicate relative storytelling device that I detest so very much. If you wish for the people to be alive... don't kill them. Simple solution. There was also talk of a return for Ultimate X-Men. We'll see how that goes, as they've already burned those bridges, really. It would be difficult to unburn them. Again, why burn them to begin with if they were even considering bringing the team back? Though I suspect any such book/team would be radically different. |
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| jrpbsp | Aug 10 2009, 06:09 PM Post #15 |
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Undisputed Ruler of Comicdom
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Well as I mentioned originally since the Ultimates are obviously going to continue and people know the cast it makes sense from a sales perspective to just reboot the characters. You'll have what you know but they will be 'all new and different'. Whole thing is just one big sales grab/ cop-out to me personally. And as an X-Men fan it seems like it was just an excuse to mess with us directly. It would pretty much take Loeb and Millar coming to my house and groveling to get me back into the 'verse since it is obvious they will not be making an X-title any time soon. |
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2:55 PM May 22