DF_GuaraniCanuck

Feb 26 2009, 01:49 AM

But first of all, I must say this is the best issue of Wolverine - Origins, and I will surprise some people here, I liked, too. That's the the first time it happens with the series. But I must say, the only thing I didn't like was making Weapon X around Romulus only, as it was revealed that Weapon X was not the creators of Logan as Weapon but it was Romulus who did it creating Weapon X.

Ah! Many people wondered who may be Victor Hudson? Maybe it coul be.... Wild Child... I must say, I don't know too much about him, except he was born in Great Britain.

DF_GuaraniCanuck

Mar 4 2009, 12:31 PM

Something I didn't like in Origins 33, and this is the reason why I don't like D. Way, is that Way is always trying to show the worst of each character. With Logan, he did it during all the series. I mentioned Summers before (he intends to kill Daken just because he joined Dark Avengers and Logan in the process if Logan interfers), and even Nick Fury. Remember that scene, Nick: "(...)I stole it". Logan: "After the way they treated you, I don't blame you one bit". Nick: "I stole it seven years ago".

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I have a few theories of my own in regards to Wolverine: Origins #33. I’ll go over them matching them point by point to the original post:

1) There’s a lot of give and take in regards to Wolvie’s past with Team X and Weapon X. Namely that the sliding time scale may or may not be in play.

Some would say Wolverine’s time at Weapon X happened at a set time period, regardless of the time scale. For the purposes of the example, lets say the 70s.

Whereas I personally believe that his time at the Weapon X project happened 15 - 20 years ago from the current date (between 11 and 13 years have passed since the Fantastic Four set off the age of heroes, in Marvel time).

A lot of the continuity is flexible if you keep in mind that there are two possible time frames for the original version of the Weapon X project.

However, you will ALWAYS run into continuity issues when it comes to trying to figure out most of that general period. Why? Because of Carol Danvers. In some stories she’s worked with Logan, in some she doesn’t remember who he is (even though those clearly take place afterwords).

She also worked with Nick Fury in the CIA, before the formation of SHIELD. When SHIELD as it stands in current continuity is fairly old (Spider-Man’s parents were SHIELD agents, after all, making it AT LEAST 30 years old taking into consideration Spidey’s age of around 26 - 28).

But wait, then there’s the fact that regardless of how you pull it Carol Danvers is over 50 years old. She was clearly at least 20 during her time with Nick and Wolvie in the CIA, before the formation of SHIELD, which again, was at least 30 years ago. Yet to look at her now, she’s 33 at most.

I know that’s a bit off-topic, but it’s the largest issue in Wolverine’s history. It’s the one plot thread that contradicts everything.

2) I think the Hudson Bay Company can be interpreted any way one wishes. We PRESUMED it was named that because of the locale, but now it’s been retroactively written that there was a deeper meaning.

3) It was the revelation of his mother’s maiden name that really sold the concept. They already had the bare bones, James Hudson, the Hudson Bay Company, the more recently added character who ran the military training camp. But it was this one that really connected all the dots.

4) This is actually a strong point, and something I overlooked. There could be any number of explanations, but we only really need one: men never stop producing sperm (in common circumstances). Age has nothing to do with male potency or virility.

5) This one takes some clever skewing. Before writing up this reply I re-read the issue in question and “The Professor” is ONLY called Thorton during the post-WW2 scenes. From that point onward they simply call him by his nickname.

What this opens up is the possibility that “The Professor” or found Essex’s diary wasn’t in fact the same Professor who we see in Wolverine’s life. He may be, for all we know, an original “Professor” who mentored the one we know and loath.

That’s creative continuity, I know, but the wording of the issue leaves the possibility open for future writers to explore. Again though, it’s an assumption on our part that they’re one in the same (though at the time I’m sure it was intended that they were).

6) Come on, VICTOR Hudson? It’s clearly another alternate Sabretooth oirigin. Or more specifically, they want us to think it is. So far we have Dog Logan, Victor Hudson, and the current origin, Victor Creed.

I think they’re going to continue playing up these red herring origins for a good long while until they finally (if ever) write that Wolverine and Sabretooth are in fact related on some level.

7) Not much to add here, just that the above methods were a clever way to tie James into the mix.

I really liked this issue. I think it was hands down one of the most important issues of the series. Right up there with the annual where we found out Romulus has been systematically murdering Logan’s ladyfriends in order to control him. And the issue where Logan finally calls in his favor from the Winter Soldier, connecting the dots of over 20 issues.

I love the idea of Daken, for lack of a better term, being built as a “Wolverine killer”. I always thought the muramasa blade was a bit silly. A magic sword that just happens to kill healing factors? But it seems like they’re putting it to good use.

It’s been a long time coming, but finally Wolverine: Origins isn’t just a good book for continuity (with terrible art and mediocre storytelling). Finally it’s ascended to a level where the art is gorgeous, the continuity is outstanding, and the stories are enjoyable. I look forward to future issues.

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It’s very possible that Daniel Way mixed up the continuity, very possible indeed. I do think there’s a bit of give and take in all of this, however.

We know that Wolverine’s memories were more than a bit jumbled before he regained them, and I believe afterwords as well. I believe regaining his true memories didn’t eliminate the false ones, hence the need to go on his various journeys in Origins to confirm what’s true and what’s false.

(One example of this would be how he has two sets of memories about his time in the tank at Weapon X. One where he’s being watched only by the Weapon X staff, and one where Romulus is clearly there beside them).

The reason I bring this up is because due to that jumbling, the original memories as we knew they may have been altered or incorrect to begin with. He was confused and conditioned and may have gotten dates and places mixed up.

That’s the give and take, that’s both of the beauty and the curse of writing a character such as Logan. Because his history is so jumbled, because the character’s memories of his history were so disjointed and often times false… that leaves the door open to a re-interpretation of when/if certain things happened from writers.

I’m not implying that that is exactly how it is, merely that Daniel Way may not be incorrect but rather openly trying to re-sequence Wolverine’s history as we know it. Of course, as you stated, DiG, he may just have gotten confused.

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That said, there is a building consensus that the second Hudson (Victor) is the blind attendant of Daken’s from earlier in the Origins series.

I read that in an above post directly after I posted my reply, and it makes a lot of sense. I had actually overlooked that line and character to some degree, so I went back and read those two scenes over and I believe the fan consensus is the correct one.

That said, I also still feel that it was intended as a red herring Sabretooth origin. Any Wolverine writer would know that the second you say “Victor” in a Wolverine comic, fans will automatically assume Sabretooth. I believe Daniel Way wants us to be looking in the direction of Victor Creed so that when he says it’s not it will come as a surprise.

Perhaps I’m thinking a bit too much into it, but I merely feel that writers don’t use the name Victor lightly in a Wolverine comic.

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As for the Hudson Bay Company ownership being named Hudson, maybe it’s the historian in me. It’s named after Hudson BAY. Similar to suggesting the Hoover dam is owned by the Hoover family.

That’s a perfectly logical assumption, and I have no doubt in my mind it was originally intended that way. It’s a fairly passive retcon and really work on either level. Both naming origins could be true in reality.

Ace

Mar 10 2009, 10:40 PM

I'd also like to reiterate that I've always felt the reason for Logan's journey in Wolverine: Origins is that he remembers his whole past, but that doesn't help him to differentiate between the false memories and the real ones. And it also doesn't mean he knows everything about his past.

He may remember what he forgot, but those memories don't erase the conditioning and implants, they would simply exist alongside them. And although he has HIS memories back, Wolverine can only remember what he knew to begin with. So since there are things about his history he didn't know, he'd want to fill in the blanks.

I believe the various trips he's taken around the world in Origins to find out details about his history are to confirm what's real and what isn't. Which memories are legitimate and which aren't. And, as an aside, to finally confirm the things he never knew to begin with.